If you missed the 2026 UPHCA Conference in St. George, you probably heard about it afterward.

The packed vendor floor. The CE classes. The giveaways. The food. The golf. The ATV rides through Southern Utah. Contractors networking late into the evening instead of rushing out the door.

And honestly? That’s exactly why the conference mattered.

Because this wasn’t just another industry event with folding chairs and stale coffee.

The 2026 UPHCA Conference showed exactly why UPHCA continues to be one of the strongest forces in Utah’s plumbing and mechanical contractor industry.

St. George Was the Perfect Setting

Held at the Dixie Convention Center in March 2026, the conference brought together contractors, suppliers, apprentices, manufacturers, and industry leaders from across Utah.

And from the minute attendees arrived, the energy felt different.

Southern Utah delivered:

Warm weather
Packed events
Great scenery
Strong turnout
Serious industry conversations

It gave contractors a chance to step away from the daily grind while still investing in their businesses, crews, and future opportunities.

That combination is hard to beat.

The Vendor Floor Was Packed

One of the biggest highlights of the conference was the vendor floor.

Manufacturers, suppliers, and industry partners showed up strong.

Attendees had direct access to:

New products
Equipment demonstrations
Emerging technology
Industry conversations
Business connections
Supplier relationships

And unlike massive national expos where people get lost in the crowd, the UPHCA Conference keeps things personal.

Real conversations happened.

Contractors were able to talk directly with vendors who actually understand the Utah market and the realities of working in the trades here.

That matters.

CE Classes That Contractors Actually Wanted to Attend

A lot of CE events feel like something you “have to do.”

This didn’t feel like that.

The conference featured highly informative Continuing Education classes focused on real-world issues contractors are actually dealing with in the field.

Code updates. Industry changes. Compliance discussions. Practical information contractors can immediately apply to their work and businesses.

That’s part of what separates UPHCA from generic industry events.

The education stays connected to the realities of Utah contractors.

It Wasn’t Just Business

This is where the conference really stood out.

The 2026 conference created an environment where contractors could actually enjoy being there.

Attendees:

Played golf
Went on bike rides
Took ATV rides through Southern Utah
Played bingo
Won major prizes
Shared meals together
Built relationships outside the jobsite

That balance matters more than people realize.

Because strong industries are built through relationships—not just transactions.

And one of the biggest advantages of UPHCA is the network that forms when contractors, suppliers, apprentices, and business owners spend real time together.

That’s where opportunities happen.

The Industry Is Stronger When Contractors Stay Connected

One of the clearest takeaways from the conference was this:

Utah’s plumbing and mechanical industries are full of people who genuinely care about the future of the trades.

That showed up everywhere:

Veteran contractors helping younger workers
Manufacturers supporting local companies
Apprentices meeting future employers
Business owners sharing knowledge
Conversations about workforce development
Discussions around regulations and industry growth

The conference wasn’t just about products or CE hours.

It reinforced that UPHCA continues to play a major role in strengthening the plumbing and mechanical contractor community across Utah.

Why Events Like This Matter More Than Ever

The trades are changing quickly.

Contractors are dealing with:

Workforce shortages
Licensing changes
New technology
Increasing project complexity
Growing compliance expectations

Trying to navigate all of that alone is difficult.

That’s why organizations like UPHCA matter.

The conference creates a place where contractors can:

Stay informed
Build relationships
Learn from industry experts
Discover new opportunities
Strengthen their businesses

And honestly, the contractors who stay plugged in usually stay ahead.

2027 Is Already Building Momentum

If the 2026 conference proved anything, it’s that the UPHCA community continues to grow stronger every year.

The turnout was strong. The engagement was high. The vendor support was impressive. And the overall energy around the event made one thing clear:

People are already looking forward to 2027.

Because when contractors leave an event talking about:

the people they met,
the things they learned,
the prizes they won,
and the experiences they had…

you know the event did something right.

Final Thoughts

The 2026 UPHCA Conference wasn’t just successful because people showed up.

It was successful because it reminded everyone why staying connected to the industry matters.

Strong contractors. Strong relationships. Strong education. Strong advocacy.

That’s what UPHCA continues to build in Utah.

And if 2026 was any indication, 2027 is going to be even bigger.

👉 Learn more about UPHCA events and membership opportunities at UPHCA

[Music] the UPHCA, a pipeline podcast. [Applause] [Music]

Live Interview at USCA Conference 2025: In your opinion, how can trade schools better reach kids these days?

Interviewee 1: Well, I think um just getting early access to kids like exposure I think is really important. So, we do college and career events.

Interviewee 1: So, I think getting in the schools and teaching them at an early age is really important.

Interviewee 1: Just exposure, getting in there, teaching them, exposing to what’s out there.

Interviewer: For the kindergarteners to fifth graders, what kinds of careers or jobs do you hear them talking about the most or talking about wanting to get when they get older the most?

Interviewee 1: I think community service jobs they hear talk a lot about like firefighters and police officers talking about nurses or doctors. Um and then depending on like their parents job I do hear like I’ve seen some electricians or plumbers but I think um it’s like their everyday hero in their brain like firefighters, police officers.

What kinds of careers do you hear kids these days uh asking the most about or the most interested when they grow up?

Interviewee 1:Um recently I’ve heard a lot about cosmetology and I live in a community that is a farming community.

Interviewee 1: So how to work on agriculture and farming and like uh repairing tractors or machine work. So that’s very cool. right in the right in the area of trades.

What is the most effective messaging for trade schools that you’ve seen?

Interviewee 1:Uh presentations just getting in front of the students so they can ask questions, they can see pictures, examples, so they can start to visualize themselves moving that direction.

In your opinion, what can trade schools do better to outreach to your students?

Interviewee 1:I think just coming in maybe just talk just talking to the students like coming in for like these presentations that you’re doing because it just opens up the you know the opportunities for them. Yeah.

Interviewee 1: We’re providing like field trips where they can go if like it’s an actual physical facility or something and going there and seeing it. Um cuz like I said it just kind of brings it to life for students.

What kinds of careers do you hear your students talking about the most or or aspiring to become once they graduate the most?

Interviewee 1: I would say a majority of them are want to be some sort of business owner is a big one, but that also includes people who are wanting to do trades.

Interviewee Group: Um I have a lot right now actually that want to be electricians. Um some that are interested in doing uh construction or like even architecture, design, that kind of stuff. Um and we get a lot of cosmetology too. Yeah. In the medical field, I think it’s always big. Medical field. Yeah.

What opportunities do you have for students to explore the trades?

Interviewee 1: At my school, we really have construction and foods. Um construction and both of those continue into the high school.

In your opinion, how can these trade schools or ones like ours reach out to uh reach out to your students better?

Interviewee 1: I think our students don’t have a good understanding of all the different types of careers that are under the construction banner. And so I think coming and talking to our students and exposing them to the different types of things they can do with their hands and how to get there would be super helpful.

What is the most effective messaging for trade schools that you’ve seen?

Interviewee 1: You can make a lot more money. And you can do it while you are in high school.

Interviewee 1: So, like I always tell kids when I was a high school counselor, it could be a hobby. It could be a if whatever your future plans fall through it’s like but you will always have that certification and we will always meet people in those fields.

UPHCA: Hi everybody, welcome to the UPCHA pipeline podcast and we have a very special guest with us today, Alan Crookton who is the educational director for the UPCA Academy. Alan, thanks for joining us today.

Alan: Yeah, thanks for having me.

UPHCA: So what we want to talk to you about today is some stuff involving uh the trades and especially like getting more youth involved with the trades and why it’s important and why more kids aren’t joining the trades or looking into the trades as an option for a career path. And so, uh, in your opinion, is is there some sort of hidden bias against the trades or working in the trades?

Alan: You know, I I’m coming from a school counseling background and when I look at it, when you look at all of the teachers, all of the counselors, all of the administrators, you know, they all went to through a university path. And so a lot of times when we talk about careers, they tell their story like, “Well, my story was to go to the university and they wear their college shirts and hang their college pennants in their classrooms.” But for a kid that wants to be an electrician or a plumber or go into HBAC, they’re not going to find those programs at the university. And so I it’s a great question, but the short answer is is yes. And it’s it’s not like they’re intentionally trying to be biased. they’re just telling their story, but there’s very few people telling the trade career path story in the schools. So, that’s just something we just need to kind of be aware of.

UPHCA: We had an opportunity to talk with some uh counselors at the Utah School Counselor Association or USA and trying to figure out a way that the trades need to be more front and center with the kids. What can counselors do to tell people about the trades more?

Alan: I think the main thing is I mean when we when we talk about this going to college like after school you should go after high school you should go to college a lot of times that is interpreted go to the university and really college is anything after high school. If it’s a fourmonth labbotomy certificate, that’s college. If it’s an eightmonth salon, you know, hair salon, cosmetology, that’s college. And so, we really need to think, I mean, a university is just uh a conglomerate of colleges. you got the college of engineering, the college of education, but for the the hands-on trade schools, the skills-based learning, um, you know, it is going to college, but it just it’s not the university path. And so, I I guess for me, what I wish would be the focus of is there should be a separate career pathway that is the apprenticeship career path. And it is very different than a university path. And so it’s it’s the message is starting to get out there, but yeah, it’s it’s not one that is very familiar with a lot of students and parents.

UPHCA: Do you think that’s partly due because maybe the counselors are aware aren’t aware of what’s out there and what’s available in the geographic vicinity or do you think it’s just a maybe they just don’t know?

Alan: I mean, I think a lot of it too is just our culture. I think a lot of it even comes from the parents. I mean, I remember when I was in high school, I I found out that there was a construction class and that they actually went out and they build the portables for the schools. And I thought, well, that is cool. I mean, it’s a pretty simple structure, but they’re working under, you know, the the teacher is a general contractor, and the kids actually build those portable units. So, anytime you drive by a portable that’s outside of the school, that has been built by students. And I wanted to sign up for that class. And I remember I came home with my schedule and I showed my dad. I said, “I want to take construction.” And he said, “No, you don’t want to take construction. That’s where all the screwoffs go.” And I thought, “Oh, so if you’re not a good student and you’re kind of a screw off, you take automotive, you take construction.” And so I there is a little bit of this culture, I think, that you can’t do well in the trades and if you want to have a real career, go to college. And the research just simply does not support that. In fact, the research shows quite the opposite. No, that hands-on skill is fantastic. When I look back to how I know how to help my nephew work on his car, goes back to my days in the automotive class and how I know how to weld things. I I own a welder and weld things. Was my welding class in high school and some of the most valuable skills that I learned were in some of those trade classes and they just pass on and help you out in so much more in life.

UPHCA: What is the Academy doing for the trades?

Alan: The UPHCA stands for the Utah Plumbing and Heating Contractors Association. And so long story short, most high school kids when you ask them like, “What do you want to do when you graduate high school?” rarely does somebody say, “Well, I want to be a plumber.” And so, you know, you think about every house you drive by, every building, every structure has plumbing in it. Every person you see today will use plumbing. We all use plumbing. And so, the demand for plumbing is huge, but nobody’s going into the field. And so, the we had a bunch of plumbing contractors get together and say, “Hey, why don’t we form our own academy? Why don’t we form our own school? It’ll be industry-ledd, industrydriven, which basically means, hey, we have contractors saying, here’s what you need to learn in order to be successful in this field. And so, it’s just super applicable. Um, students are able to get in, you know, roll up their sleeves, get to work, and become a fully licensed journeyman plumber. And yeah, we have plumbers doing um you know, 18 year 18-year-old kids right out of high school doing 50 $60,000 a year on up to six figures. And so that’s really the one of the myths I’d like to debunk is if you look at the research, um those in the trades are out earning their bachelor degree peers, their bachelor degree graduates, they’re out earning them and they’re doing it with zero college debt. And so it just gives them a really good head start in life.And so I guess as far as when you think about the students, we talked a little bit about oh it’s the slacker community or they’re the ones who go into the trades, but who would benefit with more exposure to the trades? Because obviously plumbing is civilization, correct? And every house has HVAC, every house has plumbing, every house has masonry, every house has everything. The trades build everything.

UPHCA: Who would benefit the mo to the most exposure to the trades to get the professional kids that we need going?

Alan: You know, that’s a great question. I think one example I give when I visit with my students, I show a picture of like Luke Skywalker and Yoda and and I say, “This is an apprenticeship that we’re all familiar with.” Like Luke, he learned how to be a Jedi by did did he go to a school and did he did he read books? Did he write papers on how the force worked? Uh did he do you know read articles and write papers on how to fly his spaceship? No, he was out in the field doing things. And so if that kind of speaks to you and you’re more of a doer like, “Hey, I want to actually fly the X-wing and I want to use the lightsaber and I want to get out there and actually do the work.” And you have someone who’s kind of mentoring you and watching over you. That’s kind of like Obi-Wan or Yoda. That is that is an apprenticeship. So we have a lot of students. I wouldn’t even say they’re they’re screwoffs or bad students. They just don’t want to sit in a desk and read about being a Jedi. They want to go out and do the field work. And I think it’s really something that’s it’s nothing’s wrong with the student. It’s something that’s wrong with our education system. Um, I mean, maybe I’m talking a little bit too long here, but when I when I was in my master’s program, I remember learning about a demographic of student that was at highest risk for failure, and it’s the Native Americans. And when you look at it culturally, Native Americans, they grew up hunting and fishing and and and making things with their hands. And it was all this, you know, field work. And then the white men come along and they they pick them up and they put them at a desk and say, ‘You need to read this book and they say, ‘Well, I don’t learn this way. I don’t like to learn this way. And then we call them a failure. And really, that’s just a a a cultural breakdown of the system. And so we have a lot of students that are they’re sharp, they’re smart, but they’re doers. They want to they want to learn by doing. And um so I think we as a society need to adjust a little bit to say hey are are we adjusting to the demand of the economy what needs to be done.

UPHCA: And when it comes to that cost benefit uh scenario, when it comes to going into college, getting a degree, getting into debt, all those other things, and then how much money you have the potential ma making in college in that career path compared to something like the trades, um why would somebody want to look at a career in the trades?

Alan: Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean, awesome question. I had my my son, he’s in high school. He asked me this question. He said, “Dad, why is the plumber’s house next door bigger than than the attorneys, uh, that’s in in our little culac.” And I said, “Well, that’s interesting.” Uh, they’re both about the same age, you know, 26, 27. And so I I kind of broke it down with them and said, “Well, you know, here in Utah, the average tuition in the state of Utah is $15,000 a year. Some are more, some are less. And so you go away to the university and you make negative $15,000. Yeah. You might be able to wait tables or something. Um or you can go work as a apprentice and you can make about $50 to $60,000. And so just in year one on basic economics, that’s about a $85,000 difference between the university versus the apprenticeship. So, you do the math over four years, you know, your your four-year college graduate can graduate with about $60,000 in debt. That’s just averaged. And your four-year apprentice has earned $250,000. That’s a $300,000 difference at age 22. So at age 22, our journeyman plumbers are buying homes, putting down payments on homes, and just have a significant head start. Um, now I’m not saying don’t go to the university. There are some paths that, you know, if my son wanted to be a veterinarian, I’d say, man, that you have to go to the university to do that or to be an accountant or something like that. But there are a lot of highpaying good jobs that are AI proof, Amazon proof um in the in the skilled trades.

UPHCA: And you know, given all of this that we’ve discussed, why do you think the trades career path isn’t more highlighted in our schools?

Alan: Yeah. And I think it goes back to that hidden bias. I I don’t think it’s I don’t even know if the schools really recognize it. Um, you know, I spent a lot of time up in Alaska. I I we talked about this at the beginning of the show. I I grew up on a commercial salmon fish site. I grew up mending nets, fixing boats, um, you know, working 18our days, picking fish. And the Alaska community is very bluecollar. you know, they got the Alaska pipeline, they got fishing, and it’s it’s almost different than it is here on the Wasatch front where the the trades, I would say out of 10 kids who graduate high school, like six of them go into the trades and it’s just very tradeheavy that they they go to school and they learn how to weld and work on cars and and all of these hands-on things, but they also see that, man, this is a good career. And then it’s kind of funny because you’ll have the kid who’s not very mechanical and doesn’t know how to use any tools. You’ll see the teachers be like, “You know what? You might want to think of going to the university. Like, I don’t know if the trades are for you.” And so, it’s kind of flipped. Like, here in Utah, it’s it’s it’s not that way. And we’re starting to see it. I mean, everyone talks about this housing crisis here in Utah, like there’s not enough homes. Duh. That’s why prices are so high. It’s not a housing crisis. It’s a construction worker crisis. We cannot find the people enough people to build these homes fast enough. And you talk to the people in in the trades, they’re like, “Well, I’m already doing 60 hours a week. I I can’t I can’t go any faster.” Um, I talked with one guy the other day. He’s like, “I could double the size of my company if I could just find the workers.” Um, so the demand is there. It’s just yeah, there’s kind of this ignorance gap of of how well you could do in the trade.

UPHCA: Where could people learn more about choosing this as a career path?

Alan: I mean some options are there’s our website. They can go to the upca tradeschool.org and learn about our program. We offer um HVAC hydronics, which is like radiant heat. We offer the full four-level plumbing program that’s fully compatible with Department of Labor. But I’d also say another option is they could just go on to if they just Google like Utah apprenticeships. Um there’s some great information on there. If they just go to Utah apprenticeships, there are so many programs out there. It’s called apprenticeshiputah.gov and there are dozens and dozens of programs out there that businesses are willing to pay you to do. So in the the apprenticeship career path, not only do you earn while you learn, like you’re earning $20 an hour, but your schooling is paid for. And so it’s better than a scholarship. They’re not only paying for your school, but you’re getting paid to go to school. And so that’s just a couple options that they can look at.

UPHCA: And just to just to clarify, could you explain what is an apprenticeship?

Alan: I think of that Luke Skywalker analogy, you know, he learned from a mentor. Um another analogy I give is it’s kind of like a learner’s permit. when you learn to drive, um, they give you a learner’s permit. The learner’s permit would be like an apprenticeship license where they say, “Hey, we’re going to put you behind the wheel and we’re going to let you drive under one condition. You have to have somebody with a driver’s license in the car with you. Now, the driver’s license is like a journeyman’s license.” And so, that’s how we all learn to drive as we get behind the wheel. I mean, we all know that if you read books on driving and you write papers on driving, you’re not going to know how to drive. You learn to drive by driving, but it does need to be supervised. And so, you get that learner’s permit and you’re supervised by someone with a driver’s license, and they say, “Oh, don’t forget this. Don’t forget that, or you should do this, or you should do that.” That’s really how the apprenticeship works is uh you’re a able to do hands-on work. you’re paid while you’re doing that hands-on work. Um, so really the classroom becomes the job site. When you go to the job site, the construction site or whatever, that is your classroom. And um, you have to have I think you have to have 8,000 hours as an apprentice working in order to get your journeyman’s license. And so that that computes to about 3 to four years of full-time work. Um, but then after four years, you know, you get your your learner’s permit transitions into a a regular permit. You get your journeyman’s license and and you’re able to supervise other apprentices and so forth. So, that’s kind of how I explain the the apprenticeship career path.

UPHCA: Is there anything you’d like to share or tell people about before we call this episode good?

Alan: I mean, maybe one final thought. A lot of people think, “Oh man, if I go into the construction trades, it’s going to break down my body and it’s going to be so hard and when I get to be 40 or 50, I don’t want to be doing all this grunt work.” And really, that’s another myth that I would just like to dispel. We have people that they go into the trades, they work while they’re young, they get all this field experience, and just like any profession, as they get more experienced and more pay, they get into management, they get into supervisory roles, they get into sales, and uh I mean, we have a guy on our our staff who he’s like the chief safety officer of this huge company over the you know, it’s like a a nationally based company. and he’s like, “Well, I’m in charge of safety now, but I started as an HVAC technician and I’ve worked my way up to this role.” And so, there are so many other roles that branch out in the construction trades. Um, but really what the economy wants right now is a skillsbased education. And that’s really like I’d like to leave you with that is whatever program you do, you should ask yourself, what skills am I getting from this? Because employers ultimately want to know what you know how to do. Yeah, and as you get older and start to move on up after a few decades, you might end up owning your own business if that’s the route that you choose to do, too. So, you know, it’s been fantastic.

UPHCA: So, great having you with us on today and I have uh really enjoyed our conversation. Be sure to check out uh upca.net and check out the programs and and the other things that we’ve talked about today. But, um thanks again, Alan, for coming on.

Alan: Really appreciate you and uh hope you hope you have yourself a great day.

Hi everybody. Welcome to the UPHCA Pipeline Podcast. I’m your host, Eric Likenberg, and today we have with us Court Lundberg from Rare Breed Plumbing. So, go ahead and say hello, Court.

How’s it going, guys? Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Thank you.

I had a chance to take a look at your website and I found it fascinating the story with the bison raising the bison and stuff. Uh it’s it’s it’s a pretty cool little story. So, I don’t know if there’s anything you care to share about that kind of before we get running.

Um, yeah. So, uh, the biggest thing for me was the bison’s been incorporated in my brand since forever. Uh, I grew up on a bison farm and when we went from cows or cattle to to bison, we found out pretty quick that they are completely different animals. Um, and a full grown bison can jump 6 feet. Just standing can jump 6 feet. So any little mistake that you made, the bison would get out and uh we found out pretty quickly that once they got out, it was very hard to control and get back in. Um and so kind of that that carefulness, that double-checking your work, that extra caution um seemed like the perfect synonym for plumbing to me of, you know, one one failed crimp ring um one small mistake and it’s catastrophic disaster. And uh so we brought the bison into the brand and uh with Rare Breed and we’ve been running with that ever since.

And and that’s kind of a fascinating segue into my uh one of my first questions is what what got you into plumbing? Kind of what inspired you to move toward the profession of being a plumber?

Yeah. So honestly, I felt like my whole life was leading up to plumbing. Like when I zoom out, I uh I uh did door-to-door sales. You know, I served an LDS mission. Um and then I did door to door sales and that was paying for my college to go into engineering. And uh you know, from the mission, I loved helping people. The door to door sales, I loved the social aspect of everything. And then the engineering, I love the problem solving. And long story short, it came to a head where I would have to take out student loans in order to continue to pay for school. And that wasn’t a path that I wanted to go down. And I was less convinced at this stage of becoming an engineer than my wife was convinced of becoming a nurse, which was the path that she was going. So, I decided to uh take a small leave from school and my dad tried to convince me to go into plumbing. And I had the same stigmatisms that come with plumbing that most people probably do, right? I didn’t want I didn’t want my butt crack hanging out. I didn’t want to be doing a dirty job. I didn’t want to be dealing with the poop. And so, I kind of put up a wall. I was just like, I am not becoming a plumber. There’s no way. And uh my dad kind of harped on me a little bit and I was like, “Okay, I’ll go try it out.” So I got a part-time job plumbing and within two weeks I was like, “This this is what I was born for. I loved it. I loved you know, people call you when you’re plumbing when they need you. They really need you.” So you’re showing up and you’re you’re providing that relief. So you get that good dopamine feeling that you’re helping people. Um I got to be a detective. I got to go see a plumbing system that I didn’t know how it worked and I had to figure it out. And then you get to put in your AirPods and kind of just tinker. And so I got the social aspect, I got the engineering aspect, I got the working with my hands. And very very rarely are you actually doing the dirty jobs that kept you away. And so I just fell in love with it. And I knew, you know, this is what I’m doing for the rest of my life. And haven’t looked back since.

Awesome. Awesome. And when did you when did you know that you had to start your own company? Like how did you go from being a business owner to to from being a plumber to saying, “Hey, I got to I got to do my own thing. I got to have my own business.” Like how did you know when that period was?

Um again, it kind of just fell into my hands. Um I think every plumber deep down always has that that nagging that they want to start their own thing, right? the the trades is a is a very different commodity. All these outside influencers that want to come in and they think the trades they’re just going to dominate it, that it’s an easy business. It couldn’t be further from the truth. And the reason why is the service that we’re pedalling isn’t a service at all. It’s people. Right. I’m only as good as my plumbers are. I could be the best businessman in the world. If I can’t attract and keep and train good plumbers, I’m nothing. Right. Right. Right. And so if you’re good at what you do, you have it in the back of your mind that I could go off and do this, even though you don’t know anything about marketing or business or finance or any of that kind of stuff. And so I did have it in the back of my mind, but I didn’t know when it would happen. Um, and quite honestly, I was pretty content. I was very happy working with my master plumber, who’s a good man, uh, that I still look up to. Um, but ultimately a client came to us that was a home warranty company. Um, and if you don’t know anything about home warranties, it’s bottom of the barrel pricing, but there’s consistent work. And they came to my boss and said, “Hey, we’re having a hard time finding honest plumbers in Salt Lake uh, that are reliable. Would you open up a branch in Salt Lake?” And my master plumber said to him, “Nope, not interested.” But he turned the opportunity over to me. And so it was kind of being handed a different job. It wasn’t a business by any sense of the word, right? I I basically worked for the home warranty under my own business. Um, and I very much owned a job and one thing led to another and the customers gave us good feedback that they liked us and we ended up growing. And it turned from owning a job to starting a business when I hired my first plumber, uh, which was an apprentice, which ultimately came down to plumbing changed my life. I loved it. And it would be selfish not to pass it on to another generation. And when we decided to hire on that first plumber, then the story started to become, well, how do I make this a career for him rather than a dead-end job where he’s going to want to leave and start his own thing, which if he does, by all means. Um, I have no hard feelings, but my job now as a business owner is to make this so easy and so um comfortable for him that he’s not going to want to leave, that he’s constantly getting attention, he’s making good pay and and all that kind of stuff. And that’s when we kind of shifted uh into owning a business. And that was probably about 3 years ago.

Okay. So, Court, what prepared you to start a business? You had the knowledge, you had the expertise as far as plumbing is concerned. How did you make that transition to becoming a business owner in the knowledge and the expertise of making sure that you know a business was successful?

Um, again, I think that’s a lot of the engineer mindset in me. Um, being an entrepreneur is if you had to put a definition on entrepreneur, you’re a problem solver. no different than a good plumber. You’re a problem solver. Um because you are faced every day with tasks that you don’t know the answer to, right? How do you do payroll? How do you do taxes? How do you set up an LLC? All this kind of stuff. And so I think that that was just a life um I think that the way I was brought up on a farm of you have to solve problems. Um, I think it was a natural tendency and uh, you know, God helped us and we we beat the fiveyear mark. I I’ve seen incredible people that on paper would be better business owners than me fail within that 5year mark because also on top of everything, owning a business is a gamble. And hopefully you have to have a little bit of luck on your side. The market has to hit, marketing has to hit, everything’s got to hit just right. And we were one of the lucky ones. Very cool.

What makes what makes this such a cool industry and such a viable career path for young people who are trying to figure out where to go in life and what they’re going to do with their life?

Um. Yeah. Well, so if you ask if you pull the average school right now on what young kids want to be, um the biggest thing that people want to be right now for whatever reason is influencers. Um that’s that’s like the number one thing I hear from kids, well, I want to be a Twitch streamer, influencer, do whatever. Um and by all means, chase your dreams, but let’s have another plan as well. Um, there’s a lot of reasons why you should become a plumber. One, there’s a labor shortage, right? Um, they keep building homes. AI is not going to be replacing you. There’s job security here, especially if you’re good at what you do. Um, it’s great pay. Uh, plumbing in particularly along with electrical is a highly protected trade in the state of Utah. and thanks to the UPCA, uh, we don’t see that slowing down. Uh, plumbing and electrical are the two. Um, and then why I had more of an affinity for plumbing versus electrical is one, I one, it intuitively makes sense to me a little bit more, right? If it’s leaking, I know it’s bad. Uh, if it shocks me, I don’t want to find out about that. So, I didn’t want to deal with that. Um but then also from the outside looking in, if you look at some of the biggest companies uh that are out there, electrical is typically such a small portion because electrical is very up and down on the economy. If the economy is doing good, if you have money burning a hole in your pocket, you might be spending money on electrical. But plumbing, I mean, water created the Grand Canyon. It’s a highly destructive thing. plumbing will always whether the economy is good or bad, toilets are going to break. Um, and so I think that is the most uh economy proof. Um, I think that it’s the best trade by far, just recession proof in general. So, that’s what sold me on plumbing from the outside looking in. And that’s proven to be true uh over my career.

Awesome. And and let’s just say uh someone who is uh younger is interested in getting into it. How would they find the right company to apprenticeship for? Like what should they be looking for in a company when they choose to take on an apprenticeship?

Yeah. So this is where I might ruffle some feathers. Um I think on that same foot of being recession proof, I think service is the only way to go. Uh, personally, and that’s also my personality. I can’t go into a bunch of spec homes and do the same thing over and over again for years on end. I can’t be the gopher that’s drilling holes. Uh, service is where your brain gets worked out, too, and you’re you’re really problem solving. Um, so what I would look for and what I recommend for people is if you’re going to go into new construction, which isn’t a bad place to start, just know that that is where you’re starting. Um, but what you’re looking for and what you’re shopping for for those first four years in particular is not the best pay. Um, it’s not good work life balance. It is finding a mentor. It is. And that’s not just your boss. That’s the journeyman that they put you under. And so, you’re looking for somebody that’s a teacher at heart. Um, somebody that’s going to let you be hands-on, not somebody that tells you to go and fetch tools all the time. That’s what you will do inevitably, but you need to get your hands on the tools and you’re looking for a teacher. Um, I think that the best teachers are all over. There might be the best teacher in new construction, but I think that that there’s a lot of great ones in service, but that’s what you’re shopping for. You’re shopping for a good teacher.

Awesome. And what is something that you wish that you knew when you were starting out in your career path? Is there a piece of advice you could give to someone that might be an aha thing for them or any kind of thing that you have and that you wish you knew when you were first starting out?

Um,I think just with those stigmas, like now the stigma’s shifting the other way, uh, that plumbers do make good money, but when I first started out, you know, I started out at $12 an hour and I kind of accepted it of I love what I do. I’m going to be broke for the rest of my life. Um, that’s what I thought, right? I I wasn’t making anything. And like everything in life, your potential is limited to your ability to communicate well. Um, and what I mean by that is I I know plumbers that are far better plumbers than me, uh, or far better plumbers than many in the industry that will never be incredibly successful because they cannot communicate well. Whether that’s communicating with their hire-ups about problems that they’re having on the job or communicating with customers effectively. Um I think that communication in all aspects it will improve your marriage, it will improve your family life. Uh but in the same lane that you are learning how to plum, you need to be also focusing on your communication skills. Um and plumbing’s a sales comes down to service plumbing, right? There’s always sales and service plumbing. The difference between sales in service plumbing versus sales in a car dealership or doortodoor sales is in those things you are creating the need. Um, and what I mean by that is like that’s where certain sales tactics come in. In plumbing, you don’t have to create the need. The customer knows that they have a need. Can you be the best educator and can you be the person that they feel confident is actually going to solve their problem? Um, and so you don’t need a bunch of sleazy sales tactics. You need to be honest. You need to be clean shaven. You need to show up. And you need to be able to educate them in a way and stand with confidence that um, do you know what, Mrs. Jones, I am the best company to take care of you. Um, and this is what we’re going to be doing for you. Um, and with that, your earning potential is unlimited. you will be in high demand with every company or better on your own if you’re a great communicator. Court, one of the issues that we see in the industry right now are companies that weigh more on the side of um commission sales than they do with the actual serving the public. And I, you know, everybody needs to make their money. I’m not opposed to that, of course, but they seem to have taken the other side of commission sales. There’s just a whole bunch of commission salesmen out there. What is your what made you decide to ensure that you wanted to take a different tack to that? Um, so the biggest thing is the longevity of the company um was the biggest thing for me. So understanding the overall economy of the service-based industry right now is private equity is coming in um and they’re buying up everybody and the play is so so you get bought out on what’s called an IBIDA which is earnings before interest taxes depreciation advertisation long story short on your profit right so money is the name of the game of what your company is worth with these companies uh the big commissionbased companies and so because money is all they care about because that’s what they’re selling for. Commissions is all based on how much money you sell. Uh Rare Breed has a different philosophy of we are not building to sell in any way, shape, or form. This this is my philosophy is I’m going to work until I’m 65 anyways. I want to control where I do it. I want to enjoy doing it. So, the problem with full-based commission is one, when your back’s up against the wall and you have to pay your bills, dishonesty can creep in. Um, because if you don’t make a sale, you don’t get paid. The second problem is is when you have a big job on the line and you need help from other plumbers to go over and work there. And if there’s no hourly pay or incentive that way, if there’s straight commission, why would there be team work, right? I don’t want to be working for free or working for much less than than just uh and then, you know, I I see it all the time of it really comes down to that honesty thing. I see it all the time that we go over we do a lot of sewer liners and we’ll go over to people’s homes and they’re being pitched to 1825,000 even up to a $40,000 sewer liner and my guys will put their cameras down and say Mrs. Jones like you don’t need it. Like in no way, shape or form do you need this? Um we’re more than happy to give you a bid if that’s what you choose. But I can’t help but think that those guys on the other end might not be bad people. That’s the only way they can pay the bills. And and they’ve gotten sucked into this cycle of umthey might have been lied to by the company that that trained them um that so and so actually does need a sewer liner or they might be bad actors. But I don’t know. But I like to believe that people are inherently good whether or not that’s true.

So, so what do you see the future of the plumbing industry in the state of Utah to be? Do you see that that’s going to continue to be a strong influence in the industry having those type of commission um salespeople out there or do you think uh people will get a little bit smarter at their being a consumer and learn?

Yeah, I I think the question has two parts to the answer. One, when I first started plumbing, we didn’t even, which this this is scary to me now, and I would never recommend this, but we never gave pricing at the beginning, not because we were being sneaky or anything like that. We just didn’t even think about it. We just went in and fixed it and said, “Hey, it’s going to be $300 at the end.” And nobody ever gave any push back at all. They trusted. they just trusted. And it wasn’t until that was up in Cash Valley. And it wasn’t until I moved down to Salt Lake that I realized how defensive people were about pricing. And it’s because the plumbing model changed from being we are servants. And you know, the plumber is the uh what does it say? The protector of the health of the nation. What’s the plumber? The health of the nation. Mhm. Yeah. And it shifted from that to a plumber as a used car salesman, you know, with with wrenches. And so I think that the public is wising up to it, which makes your job harder if you are an honest plumber. Also, when it comes to private equity, um, all these companies as they sell, what they’re doing is they’re rolling up and in four or five years, they’ll sell again. And then when that happens, there’s a culture shakeup and all of these commission-based guys didn’t get taken care of like they thought they would because again, money is the end goal. And so the culture gets shaken up and they go off and they start their own thing or they go to other companies. So the question is they’re all rolling up until one of them IPOs which has become a publicly traded company and that’s a gamble of whether or not that’s even possible. Um, I think that somebody will, but I don’t know how many. I mean, look at there’s one company in particular here in Salt Lake that owns well over eight companies. And in order to do that, they cannibalized a bunch of other ones. I think that homeowners with a conscience will uh not homeowners, business owners with a conscience are going to think twice before giving something that they’ve poured so much of their heart and soul into to a company that will end up seeing their their brand be just obliterated. But that all depends on how good of business owners they are. Many of these business owners are selling out of necessity. They might be making money hand over fist, but they’re paying out all these commissions and they’re not sustainable and they’re they’re selling because they’re in massive amounts of debt and that’s their only way to continue forward. They didn’t build a sustainable model because they built only to sell. Does that make sense what I’m saying? I think that’s a little bit jumbled, but I think we’ll see what the private equity market does. Um, but I don’t know. I’m kind of focused on my race, which has nothing to do with that. I’m just trying to build the best company I can. And seeing some of those IPOs kind of come in and buy up the smaller companies and they keep the name of the original company and kind of just butcher it.

Um, if there is a plumbing company that’s out out here, um, kind of in that position, what kind of piece of advice could you give them? to have that kind of successful mindset to to fix this thing from snowballing any further than it is to fix their own plumbing company so they don’t have to sell, right? Is there do you see anything that could be done to kind of stop that flow of of businesses being turned over into these um private equity conglomerates?

Yeah. Um, I mean, first first and foremost, becoming a better business owner and knowing your numbers, making sure that you’re trending in the right way to be able to be profitable, um, is huge. And I think that the best way that you can do that is as a business owner, um, get with companies that are doing it successfully. Um, that was that was the biggest realization for me for starting out is every business owner knows without a shadow of a doubt that their company is a train wreck and they are just like they are feeling insecure, right? How could this be happening to me? I must be a terrible business owner because so and so’s got it figured out. I get comments like this all the time of because I look I have a goodlooking brand because I feel like I’m a marketer at heart and I understand the importance of a brand. Um I have a better looking brand than I would say most plumbing companies in Utah. And that’s not being braggadocious. I I genuinely feel that way. Um well people see that and they link it as, wow, you must have it all figured out. And when we sit down and we’re talking about the brass tax, dude, I got the same problems that you do. I have the exact same problems, we just aren’t open about talking about them. And dude, you feel alone and you feel scared and you’re not wanting to even, you know, peak behind the veil. But if you just talk to other business owners, most guys would say, “Yeah, this is hard.” And finding the people that are the best at what they do. Um, you know, I have one company that when I have problems with finances, I go talk to him because that’s he’s financing at heart. Like, that’s what he loves. I go get his advice. If you need help with branding and marketing, come talk to me. That’s what I love. Like, I have zero problems in that aspect. Um, but I have problems with all of the other things as everybody else does. So, so that was the big aha for me is everybody else has a train wreck as well going on under the hood. It’s how even including the biggest guys in town, they are the same. They’re having the same problems. I promise you, they’re having the same problems. Um, and just being able to speak up, people are willing to help you. Other business owners are willing to help other business owners. The UPHCA is a great example of plumbing companies coming together and collaborating rather than scarcity mentality. Because at the end of the day, there are 3.5 million people in the state of Utah. All of them have plumbing that needs that needs help, right? And if I help other people in the UPHCA, I’m not taking from their plate. If anything, if there is a plate that we’re even taking from, which I don’t believe there is, but if there is, we’re picking up everything that the private equity is dropping as we get better as locally owned companies.

That is fantastic. I could not have said that better myself. That’s we’re we’re all in this together. We’re you don’t have to fight it alone. Um but uh in order to protect our market and our customers and everything else and prevent them from uh the bad actors that are out there and without any naming any names u maybe some examples you might have seen of some bad actors uh within the industry. Is there any kind of examples you might that come to mind?

So yeah, not necessarily on on companies and I think this is where we need to be careful as locally owned companies as well. Um the like I said before apprentices need to be shopping for a teacher, right? So the inverse of that is that plumbing companies need to become great teachers. They they just do. The problem, the biggest problem with private equity is they are good teachers only in the communication realm in sales because that’s all that they care about. And so there’s a quote that uh by Steven Cvy that some people have 20 years of experience and others have one year of experience repeated 20 times. And that’s the problem that we’re running into right now within the plumbing industry is I will interview all sorts of plumbers with 20 years of experience when in reality they have one year of experience repeated 20 times. Um they can’t diagnose it correctly, they can’t fix it correctly, they’re not doing correct gas sizing as the the government and regulations are pushing us more over to tankless models. um they’re just slapping them in and and customers are having problems. And so the biggest problem I see is some of these big companies are going in. And inherently the customer believes, right or wrong, and I firmly believe it’s wrong, the customer though believes that the bigger companies are investing more into education, right? And so they, and I’ve felt this, when when you need a problem solved, you go to a bigger company because they’re probably going to know how to take care of it uh better. I’ve lost customers to this before I had my branding figured out. Um, being able to train your guys how to do the job properly and to invest in education. And it’s it’s uncomfortable. It’s uncomfortable to get your guys to go and sit down in a room for one hour and talk to them about things that maybe nine out of your 10 guys already know intimately about water softeners, about gas, about whatever, but that other one guy will walk away with more value. Training, training, training all the time. I think that’s what’s ultimately going to set us apart uh from the big guys cuz they’re not training on the actual plumbing. they are training on sales and communication only. Um, and so that’s where I feel like I have shined above the big guys when you go in and so and so’s already been there and they didn’t solve the problem and you fix it in 20 minutes and you know that’s where you get the customers for life as well. Yeah. becoming a lifelong student of your craft and trade and all that and yeah, I think you’ve got a really good thing going. Um, as far as the general consumers go and the and the general public out there who may not know how any of this works, um, what what do you think that they can look for when they’re looking for a plumber and they’re out there kind of researching it? What are some some things you can tell them to help them find the right company to avoid getting scammed so they so they don’t spend a lot of money trying to fix it and then have somebody come in and fix spend 20 minutes and fix it, you know? Um I mean the basics that they’re going to be looking for is Google reviews, right? I don’t think Google reviews lie. Um and go down to the one stars first. No company is going to be full five stars. Everybody’s trying to make mistakes, but how the company handles those mistakes will speak volumes to it. Um, and then the second thing is understanding how to use Doppel and verifying that your contractor is licensed. Not only the company that is being advertised, right? So, if you go look up Rare Breed Plumbing, you will find Rare Breed Plumbing Heating and Air. You’ll find it on Doppel. But also, when the individual contractor steps in, that’s not enough. When the individual contractor steps in and I say, “Hi, Mrs. Jones. My name’s Court Lundberg.” It’s a quick search to say Court Lundberg. And are they licensed? And if they are licensed, are they an apprentice or are they a journeyman? And have the guts to say if they’re an apprentice like, “Hey, I’ I’d feel more comfortable if a journeyman’s out here.” Um, no company’s going to say no to that that’s running a tight ship. Um, and again for the general public, a somebody should be an apprentice for a max of 8 years. And you can see when they filed to be an apprentice, a maximum of eight years. And if they have been an apprentice for 20 plus years, and they’re like, well, I’ve been doing this for 20 plus years. It’s like, or you’ve been doing this for one year, repeat it 20 times. because if you’ve really been investing in your craft, you would have licensed out by now. You would have put the time and effort into upgrading yourself. That’s that’s my personal bias on it.

Yeah, that’s great. And then um we’ve kind of hit on a lot of this uh as far as like some of your core business philosophies, but is there anything that you have to share additionally as far as core business philosophies that that can kind of help improve and improve the quality and the of our trade and craftsman in our area?

Um I think it’s very often we remember you know the good companies already have this built into them that that we’re servants right that this is a servitude job we are serving our clientele I think we also need to remember that our clientele is also our internal customers um and we have touched on that but the the companies that are want to stick around long term and that aren’t going to have a lot of churn. I don’t know about anybody listening to this, but I for one do not enjoy recruiting uh for a position that I’ve already found a good fit for. I feel like I’m going backwards. You feel like you’re a hamster spinning your will. When I’m recruiting, it’s because I’m growing. That’s what I want to do. And so to not have that churn, you need to have a business plan that has uh room for them to grow, right? Um and that might be teaching them leadership, that might be uh teaching them more things about plumbing. But I think that that knowing what that plan is and recruiting to it and making good on your internal customers, we get people all the time because they know that they’re going to be trained here. even those guys that are 20 years into it. Um, I put a lot of time and effort into finding those apprentices and saying, “Look, nobody’s ever invested in you to to uh actually get your licensing.” Um, stop doing that. Stop having the scarcity mentality of like, if I don’t get my if my guy gets licensed, he’s going to leave. Well, I’d rather have that than have him not get licensed and stay. and me have to deal with all the cleanup. Invest in your guys and train them. Um, and it’s it’s just going to work out. Just invest in your people.

And do you think that’s part of the key of having employee growth is is just investing in the employee?

Yes. they’re going to feel I mean I I challenge everybody that went off and started their own thing of like what what got them to leave and there was usually a catalyst of some sort of they feel like they had hit a ceiling. Um or they had a fallout with a boss because of something like there’s usually happy people don’t leave their jobs just to go try something. Maybe they do. The vast majority of people either something fell in their lap like it did for me. Um or they’ve hit a ceiling where they’re just like, I’m the most competent person here. I need to go off and do my own thing. Or they had a boss that threw them under the bus or wasn’t investing in them or wasn’t teaching them. Um and I think investing in in them is what’s going to keep them. And if it’s not um and I don’t want to go over too much on time, I have all the time in the world. So, but if you look at uh Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs is wildly revered as the largest uh investment company. The fact is that that’s just not true. They’re not the biggest in any way, shape, or form. what Goldman Sachs is, but they they look like they’re the biggest and they get very profitable jobs and all that kind of stuff. Their philosophy is really interesting to me and it’s what we’ve tried to do. Goldman Sachs is kind of a meat grinder of people and we are not. But if you go work at Goldman Sachs, you’re grinding 80 hours a week and it’s kind of your place to prove yourself. Um, well, what happens is when Goldman Sachs employees leave, they know that Goldman Sachs is very efficient at what they do. And so they go to Meil Lynch or they go to this small investment company and they get a customer that calls them and says, “Hey, can you do this?” They say, “No, I don’t, but I know somebody who can.” And they’ll refer people, previous employees will refer it over to Goldman Sachs. In plumbing, it’s the same. when your guys go start out and they land that liner job or that big boiler job or that big remodel and they’re just like, “Man, I can’t take this on.” If you were good to them and you invested in them, they’ll send it back your way all the time. Um, and so I’m not afraid of my guys leaving. I think it’s going to end up putting more money in my pocket. And if I support them, like I said, we were lucky to last the 5 years that we did. the chances of them surviving, even if they’re killers, is still pretty low. Um, and that’s not to disparrage them or anybody else. That’s just the reality of business. That business is hard and it’s not for the faint of heart. And so, if the wheels fall off that train, I still want to be there to pick them up. And you’re not going to do that by burning bridges and saying, “Oh, yeah. If you start your own thing, you’re dead to me.” No, I’ll I’ll support you however I can.

Awesome. Well, Court, I really do appreciate you taking the time to hang out with us today. It’s been uh fascinating to hear your story. Uh Court Lundird from Rare Breed Plumbing. Um thanks so much for being with us today. Uh really appreciate your time. Absolutely. Appreciate it. Yeah.

Is there anything else anybody wants to ask real quick?

I just want to you you have looked at you specialized in certain parts of the trade like give us some ideas of why you went into certain aspects and what what uh why did you specialize in certain areas?

Um yeah, I think that also goes back to what did I wish what would I have wished that I known about plumbing when I first started. Um something that people trying to get into the trades need to realize is if there is humans, if there are humans, there are plumbers in some aspect. Like you will never be out of a job plumbing. The oil fields need it. Lagoon’s hiring right now. Cruise ships need plumbing. Any third world needs plumbing. Everybody needs a plumber. And so there’s so many aspects. And this is one thing that I wish the school system would improve on is they teach code and they teach all this. I wish that when we first got into it and when I was going to school, I learned how to freeze pipes. I learned more about hydronulics. I learned more about sewer lining. I learned more about all these aspects uh pipe bursting and all these kind of things. There are a million avenues that you can go into with plumbing. Um, why Rare Breed focuses on what it does is because of the the customers that we serve. And the customers that we serve are primarily um the residents of Salt Lake, Davis, and and uh Utah County. And so it’s typical homeowners. And so we are looking for the services that offer them the best service. And that is pipelining. um on those older homes. It is general residential service. It is hydronics. Um and it’s why we’ve steered clear of things um of other things. We we don’t do a lot of commercial at as of this time. Um but as we do, we’re we’re dipping our toes into commercial right now. And the reason why we’re doing it is again because of our internal customers. I had a plumber that came to me. He’s an absolute killer. I asked him what his end up goals were and he says I really like to do this kind of work. Um well I have zero zero desire to do uh big commercial jobs personally like that doesn’t sound fun to me at all but he does and I want to keep him around. So I go and find those jobs for him and I help him build out his own department. Now he’s being invested into he feels valued. He feels more ownership into that. I feel good about it too because if we do it right, hopefully we’re making some money on it. Um, but I have a new avenue that I can attract people to of I can send apprentices over there to learn the basics and then bring them over into service uh once they have it. And so that’s kind of why we’ve focused on what we have. It’s why we haven’t really gotten into backflows yet, but we will. Um, just one step at a time. Hopefully that answered the question.

Very cool. Well, uh, Court again, I appreciate you coming on. Appreciate you having taking the time to talk with us today. But Court Lungberg from Rare Breed Plumbing, and this has been another episode of the UPCA pipeline podcast.

So, thank you for joining us today.

Hey, thanks guys.

The UPHCA Pipeline podcast.

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Licensing

Each issue is thoroughly discussed below.

City/County Permitting & Approval Process:

1. Delays in Permits and Inspections

Cities take too long to issue permits, even in emergencies.
Inspections are rarely done the same day, requiring multiple return trips.

2. Excessive and Unfair Costs

Cities require cash bonds or charge high permit fees.
Contractors must pay upfront, wait years for refunds, and get no interest back.

3. Inconsistent Rules and Rework

Cities frequently change policies or disagree internally, forcing contractors to redo approved work.

4. No Emergency Flexibility

Even when customers have no water, cities won’t allow work without permits—delaying critical repairs.

5. Legal Contractors at a Disadvantage

Companies that follow the rules face more costs, delays, and red tape.
Illegal or non-compliant contractors face fewer barriers and remain competitive.

6. Frustration with City Officials

City departments are seen as unorganized, slow, and unhelpful.
Contractors feel ignored and punished for trying to do things the right way.

Comments on this issue

Contractor Business Registry:

The UPHCA has been actively addressing concerns with the Division of Professional Licensing (DOPL) regarding the Construction Business Registry (CBR).

The CBR, created by the Legislature through SB 148 (2022), was intended to be a public directory of licensed contractors to help homeowners and businesses find qualified, licensed professionals. DOPL was given until January 2025 to design this registry. However, DOPL has interpreted the legislation to include individual licensees, such as master, journeymen, and apprentices, to be included in the registry alongside licensed contractors.

This is problematic because:

Licensees cannot legally contract work on their own unless they are affiliated with a licensed contractor business.
Including licensees creates public confusion about who can legally be hired.
It undermines licensed contractor businesses by implying licensees can operate independently.
It appears to conflict with the legislative intent of SB 148, which consistently refers only to “licensed contractors” as the intended participants in the registry.

UPHCA has formally requested that DOPL revise the registry to include only licensed contractors, as stated in Utah Code 58-55-702(2). If necessary, we are prepared to pursue legislative clarification in 2026.

We will keep you updated on any developments. This is part of UPHCA’s continued efforts to protect the integrity of our industry and support licensed, ethical business practices.

Comments on this issue

Handyman & Maintenance Exception:

Recent discussions with DOPL have highlighted two key enforcement concerns affecting licensed plumbers. First, despite the 2024 legislative change (HB483) the UPHCA supported removing “replacement” from the handyman exemption, DOPL has been reluctant to enforce this change, citing conflicts with outdated administrative rules and concerns about limiting handyman services. This creates confusion and allows unlicensed individuals to continue performing fixture replacements unlawfully. Second, while DOPL now enforces that only W-2 employees (not 1099 contractors) can perform maintenance work, they are still allowing those employees to exceed legal limits—specifically by doing plumbing work that the rule clearly prohibits under the maintenance exception. These enforcement gaps undermine the integrity of the licensing system and pose risks to public health and safety. UPHCA is actively working with DOPL to draft updated rules that support the statute and restore clear, enforceable boundaries for who can legally perform plumbing work in Utah.

Water Heater – ULN:

As of July 1st, Ultra Low Nox (ULN) Water Heaters regulations undergo significant changes. The law will require ULN water heaters to be installed only in some areas of Utah, not statewide as before. Specific counties and zip codes won’t provide complete information. Today we were informed that the Utah Division of Air Quality is developing rules and an app to determine if an address is located in a non-attainment area requiring ULN water heaters. The Non-Attainment area isn’t strictly defined by county or zip code. To view the Utah DEQ map click here:

We’ve asked for the following information from DAQ.

Who will enforce the compliance process?
Who will be the responsible party to ensure compliance? In other words, will each plumbing company be required to check the app, or will suppliers, homeowners, or large box stores be responsible for determining if the individual purchasing the water heater is required to have an ULN?
Are materials being developed to convey the information required for compliance?

In a meeting with the Division of Air Quality, we were told several weeks ago that further information would be available. To their credit, they were not the organization that proposed this change; however, they didn’t oppose it either. It was proposed by a member of the Utah House of Representatives, HB313. This continues to be an issue we will be monitoring.

We value your feedback. Share your experiences and comments if you’re facing similar issues.

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Licensing:

There is always a potential for changing, reducing, or completely removing licensing of the skilled trades, and the UPHCA is closely monitoring these issues. However, the Office of Professional Licensure Review (OPLR) was established in 2022 by the legislature and is within the Utah Department of Commerce. The purpose of this new agency is to review all occupational licenses in the state. Its mission is to ensure licensing laws protect public health and safety without placing unnecessary barriers on professionals. The licenses reviewed over the past two years have undergone significant changes to their licensing. They are Behavioral Health Professionals, Cosmetology Licenses, Massage Therapy, and Building Inspectors. Each review involves data analysis, stakeholder input, comparison with other states, and recommendations for reform. These may include reducing training hours, allowing alternative pathways, or expanding scopes of practice, while maintaining public protection. Recommendations are presented to the legislature or implemented through administrative rule changes, supporting a more accessible and efficient licensing system in Utah. It is anticipated that contractor/skilled trades licensing will be reviewed in 2027. We are on top of this.

Nearly 200 companies are members, primarily for our strong advocacy with the legislature and government agencies. The UPHCA has a strong voice, and we tackle important issues, often taking months or years to see results. We want to ensure you are aware of our ongoing efforts. It is through your support that the UPHCA has a full-time lobbyist team, Capstone Strategies, to assist us on these issues.

Bad Actor and How to Avoid Case Study: Action Plumbing, Heating, Air, & Electric

The Case Study

If you’re familiar with Action Man and Action Dog you may have heard they’ve landed in hot water recently. A number of exposes were ran regarding Action Plumbing, Heating, Air, & Electric and their nefarious business practices after enough complaints were brought to the attention of DOPL (Division of Professional Licensing) and the DCP (Division Consumer Protections).

Just to give you an idea as to how big a deal this is, DOPL is the governing body to which all plumbers and contractors must be licensed- think of it like the DMV for running a trades based business.

These allegations, published by reliable sources like KUTV, local Fox News 13, and KSL have all run stories about Action’s business practices. But even before then there were signs. Wildly swinging 1 and 5 star reviews on Google and Yelp and high pressure sales techniques were all tell-tale signs that it was only a matter of time until they were caught. It’s even likely that there are more instances of these dishonest business practices than what’s been reported.

The tricky part is discerning who is and who is not a company that works in good faith. Both kinds of companies have access to the same marketing tools and techniques. In fact, Action kept a score of 4 stars or higher on Google and Yelp. But there were warning signs even from the start and this post will help you better identify what those signs are and avoid financial stress working with companies that are let into your home.

In one of the instances mentioned in the lawsuit, an HVAC technician quoted the homeowner over $10,000 and claimed the unit was “Beyond repairing”. While instances of unsavory business practices exist everywhere*, there technically is not anything illegal about overestimating the price for a job.

But it brings us to the first of two tips we have regarding how to protect yourself from these tactics.

Get a second opinion – Most, if not all, of the Utah base of HVAC and Plumbing Businesses offer a free second opinion. Take them up on that. It’s not bad manners to turn a sales person down and explain that you would like to get another opinion from another trusted source, in fact it is your right as a consumer and the protector of your home to do so.

*Hello markdown items whose prices were raised just before the markdown so they’re still sold at full price, a tactic we all know and hate!

Allegedly Fraudulent Behavior

But as for outright illegal business practices, the third district court has alleged that an employee of Action took a check out of a customer’s checkbook, filled it in, and asked the elderly woman with dementia to sign it…for $50,000.

Another instance, also mentioned in the same lawsuit, alleges that another elderly woman with dementia was charged over $20,000 for about $50 worth of decorative switches.

This is fraudulent behavior that preys on the more vulnerable members of society, and quite frankly it is sick. What’s worse is that this behavior was allegedly rewarded within the company over completing work safely and competently for their customers. Which itself also led to a few instances of shoddy work that put lives at risk.

We may be focused on Action right now but that’s due to the company’s well documented, egregious, and systematic abuse of their customers. Don’t mistake us, there are more companies out there that utilize the same tactics, including paying employees for upselling and commissioned work. Our tactics are applicable to any company you work for. While they may not cover every single tactic that’s being used right now, they can go a long way towards protecting yourself and your home.

As we mentioned before, getting a second opinion on any amount of work being done on your home is a good idea. If the first company you called is honest and believes in their work, they know a second opinion by another similarly honest company will back up their estimate. Many companies in and around Utah employ a “Free Second Opinion” Special for this exact reason, so don’t be afraid to shop around.

Online Research – Conducting online research for a company can be difficult. Chances are, if you’re reading this article, you’ve gone to google and typed in “good plumbers near me” and selected one of the first results that popped up- also known as how search engines work. But as we all know, sometimes those results can be cooked. Likewise…

Reviews online can be similarly deceiving. Technically speaking, Action Plumbing has a 4.5 star rating on Google with over 5,000 reviews. On its face, that’s a really good rating, not too good that you suspect them of really cooking their reviews, certainly must be a mark of good quality. But take a closer look next time. Look at the discrepancy between 5 and 1 star. Are there reviews between the two? Or is it just one or the other? That can be indicative of the experiences you could experience, beware.

Remember, there are some companies that exist to siphon as much money as possible from their customers. A few ways to avoid this is by doing additional research into the company via DOPL and their Reviews, and don’t forget to cash in on the ever present “Free Second Opinion” coupon that exists.

Skip the Nonsense!

It can be difficult to differentiate between the great companies and the poor ones, especially when you search on google. Just because someone is better at marketing does not mean that they are a better company to work with; even crap rises to the top.
Take the guesswork out of the search and use UtahPlumbing.org.

Simply filter by service and search using your address or zip code, and you’ll instantly be given hundreds of vetted plumbing and hvac companies to work with that adhere to our strict code of conduct.
Use UtahPlumbing.org to find the plumber your mother would hire.

“Buy a tankless Water Heater and get a Free Water Softener! We will clean any drain for this super low price! Purchase this Item and we will give you $2000 off!”

What’s that old saying, “If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.”

I’m Vic Bachman, owner of Mike Bachman Plumbing in Ogden, Utah. If you have heard these ads and think that they are too good to be true. I would agree with you. Nothing is free and a company can’t send someone to your home for less than they are paying the person to be there. These are bait and switch tactics that are hurting the public and destroying the reputation of trades in general and making all tradesmen look bad.

Over the years I have been called out to numerous calls for a second opinion and have been shocked at what I have learned. Just recently I was called out to give a bid on a Tankless water heater. After giving the customer the price, she was amazed at the cost. She said she had another company come out and gave them a price for a tankless heater with a free water softener for a little over $15,000 dollars. My Price to install a Tankless heater in her home and for what needed to be done was $6160, and a top-of-the-line lifetime warranty water softener was $3430 for a total of $9590 a savings of $5410 and she was paying for and getting a better water softener. Another job we were called to inspect a drain line that another company came to clean for $29 and then told the customer that they couldn’t get their cable through the drain and showed them a video of a broken sewer line. They then quoted them a price of over $25,000 to reline the drain. The customer said they were very pushy salesmen and used multiple scare tactics to get her to sign. Luckily her daughter came over and called us before the other company came to do the work. We went out to the home and within an hour were able to run our cable through the drain and video the line. Our video showed no problems with the drain. There were no breaks or problems that required relining. All for only $397 yes, it is more than $29 but it was a lot cheaper than $25,000. I have had multiple calls just like this. (Each job is different and prices may very)

I feel as a licensed professional and as a responsible business owner it is my responsibility to warn you about these companies and the tactics they are using. Some of these companies are owned by the same corporations. They are buying up small local companies and keeping their names and then still claim to be locally owned and operated and that they have been in business for x number of years when they are just using the name and dates of the original company, and the old owner is longer involved. They also own multiple companies so when you think you are getting multiple bids you may be using the same company and are just getting bids from the same company with a different name who already knows the price the other gave you.

To get information on this I would suggest visiting https://uphca.net/2023/03/30/locally-owned-operated/ This is an independent site for Utah Contractors trying to protect you and the integrity of Utah owned businesses.

Please do your homework before you buy. If these companies are offering $2000 off a product, then that price was way too high to begin with and it probably still is after the discount. Companies must make money to stay in business and they can’t do that by giving away free items. Don’t let their high-pressure salesman get you to sign. If you must sign up right now or you will lose the deal, then there is something wrong with the deal. Ask to see their license and make sure they are a Licensed Master, Journeyman or Apprentice in the trade they are performing. You can also check if they are licensed on The Department of Professional licensing website. https://dopl.utah.gov/ all you need is their First and Last name. Click on Licensing and then Verify License and add their name and trade. If they have only an apprentice license, ask where their journeyman is. There are jobs that apprentices can do on their own but a tankless water heater, drain line relining or home rewiring are not one of them. They are apprentices for a reason, and they need supervision. If they claim they are a Trained Technician, then it means that the company they work for are not following the laws and they shouldn’t be installing anything in your home. If they work for an all-in-one company (Plumbing, HVAC and Electrical) then make sure they are licensed for the job they are doing. You don’t want a Plumber to rewire your home or vice versa. There are reasons you must be an apprentice for 4 years before you can be a journeyman.

Our company Vision here at Mike Bachman Plumbing is to “Improve the Lives of everyone we come in contact with.” I hope this message helps you and keeps you safe.

Vic Bachman

President and owner of Mike Bachman Plumbing Inc.

Utah Master plumber License # 155941-5518 and Contractor # 337962-5501

Locally Owned & Operated, Family owned Plumbing Company and is member of the Utah Plumbing & Heating Contractors Association (UPHCA). UPHCA Members are Qualified companies that are your neighbors, members of our community that are NOT owned by big corporate, out of state venture capitalist that sign a Code of Integrity. You can find these companies throughout the State by going to www.utahplumbing.org.

West Valley City, UT, September 30, 2023—The Utah Plumbing and Heating Contractor’s Association (UPHCA) is pleased to announce the launch of the UPHCA Academy, an educational foundation established to further the plumbing trade in Utah. The Academy ribbon cutting ceremony and open house will be held on Thursday, November 9th at 2824 S. Redwood Road in West Valley City at 9:00 a.m.

“The UPHCA Academy’s goal is to educate and train individuals in the trades, transforming individual’s into a journeyman or master plumber, without the high cost of a university or college degree”. Says David Hill Executive Director of the Academy “The trades are an often overlooked path. Yet with the current housing and plumbing shortages in Utah, plumbing is a field that is already paying nearly four times the current minimum wage.”

The National Kitchen and Bath Association estimates that nearly 60,000 plumbers retire each year, with only 30,000 new apprentices entering the field. Adds Dave, “The plumbing shortage hits home in Utah, with a frightening high median age right now in the field. This shortage is what prompted the UPHCA to establish the Academy.”

Since the announcement of the upcoming opening of the Academy in January, nearly 100 students have already enrolled from all over the State of Utah eager to improve their skill sets and become journeymen plumbers. Training will be online, day or night, with labs and hands-on training onsite at the Academy. As an added benefit, students will learn while working and having a career to be proud of.

“We’re excited about training the next generation of plumbers who will earn licenses and develop lifelong skills that will provide a great standard of living” says Eric Child, President of the UPHCA. We’re equally excited about helping as many people as we can to learn skills and join the workforce as skilled tradespeople—from ex-military to refugees and those looking for a real career change.”

Members of the community and industry are invited to the event on Thursday, November 9th. The ribbon cutting begins at 9:00 a.m., followed by the open house. Lunch will be served from 11:00 a.m. through 1:00 p.m. Please RSVP at contact@uphcaacademy.org or on the UPHCA Facebook page on the Events Tab. For more information, call 801-307-5500.

About the UPHCA

The UPHCA is the largest and only independent subcontractor association that represents the plumbing and HVAC industry in the State of Utah, lobbying before the state legislature and governmental regulatory agencies on behalf of the plumbing industry. The UPHCA association offers responsible stewardship of the industry it represents and excellent benefits to member companies. The UPHCA rolls out exciting initiatives to help member companies be more profitable and successful as a business entity. In addition, the association has an ongoing focus of Continuing Educational Training and Outreach, Legislative/Lobbying and Safety in the Workplace.

What does it mean to be locally owned and operated? What is the difference to the public and local economy? Is it a benefit to the consumer? When a large box store moves into an area what does it do to the local businesses? Where does the profits to the big national stores or operations go? These questions and others are evaluated by the local communities and experts all the time. However, you the consumer what is your thoughts on this?

Many of the local businesses are your neighbors or who employ your neighbors or friends. These local businesses support the local economy in so many ways. It seems that the trend in business is buying up smaller companies and managing all of them as one large multifaceted corporation. In some situations multiple companies in the same market are owned by one company, however they retain the former name. With this type of market approach, it can affect the consumers experience. “Buyer Beware” is the phrase that we should remember and consider. But how do we know which companies have taken this course of action? Here is a list of local companies that have been purchased by large ‘venture capitalists’ corporations who look to expand their reach into a local market and in turn increase their bottom line. Increasing the bottom line isn’t a bad thing at all, however when taking an unfair advantage of the markets and consumer it goes back to the phrase – “Buyer Beware”. We’ll let you decide!

Here are a few examples of what is happening in Utah.

Knox Lane: https://www.knoxlane.com/

Any Hour (Utah)
Black Diamond Experts (Utah)
Lee’s Plumbing (Northern Utah)
Bumble Breeze Plumbing Heating & Air
Penguin Air (Phoenix)
AC by J (Scottsdale)
Advance Home Services (Southeast Idaho)

Friendly Group: https://friendlygroup.com/

Friendly Home Service
Just Right Heating & Cooling
Western Heating, Air, Plumbing
Main Street Heating & Cooling, Plumbing
Utah’s Best Home Pros

APEX Service Partners: https://apexservicepartners.com/ – alpineinvestors.com

Whipple
All Pro Plumbing – St. George
All Hours Plumbing/Heating/Cooling

Bestige: https://bestigeholdings.com/ or Listed under Intermountain Home Services

Craigs Services
Comfort Solutions
Comfort Construction Services
My Buddy the Plumber
Same Day
Walker Plumbing
Superior Water & Air
ICS – Intermountain Comfort Supply
Lee’s Heating – Air Conditioning – Duct Cleaning – Water Treatment
Comfort Construction (HVAC)
Utah Engineering (HVAC, Plumbing) (Commercial)
Beehive Plumbing

TurnPoint: https://www.turnpointservices.com/

Scott Hale Plumbing & Heating

American Residential Services (Charles Bank): https://www.ars.com/

YES! (Formally ESCO and Rescue Rooter)
OyBoy Heating and Cooling
Absolute Heating

Brookfield Infrastructure https://bip.brookfield.com

Barlow Service Experts

Wrench Group: https://www.wrenchgroup.com/wrench-group-brands/

Mountain Air Conditioning and Heating

Clarion Home Service: https://clarionhsg.com/portfolio/

Triple – T Heating/Cooling/Plumbing